Alright, simmer down people.  I’m back with Part 2 of my convo with TON3X™!  Here, we wrap up the interview, discussing his “shock” value, where his music really belongs, where urban gospel is headed and LOTS more.

In case you didn’t read Part 1, you’re gonna wanna go ahead and CLICK HERE to catch up before you go any further.

Otherwise, if you’re all set, here we go… Part 2.

*     *     *

EJ:  You know, you’ve been an incredibly controversial artist in the gospel community for several reasons—your style, your lyrics, your approach.  How do you respond, or do you even feel the need to respond to critics who chalk up your image to someone who just wants attention and does things for shock value?

TON3X™:  Oh, well… they’re right.  I want your attention.  I wanna shock you.

EJ:  *laughs*

TON3X™:  *laughing* I want you to be shocked.  Because I know that as much as you’re saying you can’t stand it, or it’s out of the will… you know my name.  And you secretly have my music.  And, deep down, you love it.  But you can’t let a lot of people know.

Like, a lot of people love to say how horrible Michael Jackson was during the Thriller era.  “He’s this… hyperbolic chamber… he has monkeys… he makes cats and dogs mate…”  Ok, you can say whatever you want to about his nose, his face, his ranch and his animals… But 53 million people in 1984 said “yes.”  Whether they admitted it out loud or not, gangsters, politicians, church people included… You don’t sell 53 million copies of ANYTHING unless practically EVERYONE in America had it, or knew someone that did.

So, the higher up you go, the more arrows come.  And I used to address those naysayers, but now it’s just that I’ll play to the folks that do want it.

EJ:  Yep.

TON3X™: You know what I mean?  Don’t try to convert anybody over and convince them of your scholastic aptitude, of your spiritual aptitude, or your artistic aptitude.  Play to the ones that want it.  And for the ones that don’t– shake the dust off your feet, keep it moving and hit the next town.

Play to the ones that do want it.  Minister to the ones that need it the way you do it.  Cuz if you dilute it, that’s when I will lose my fan base.  When they saw that cover and heard this music, they said “THAT’S the TON3X™ I’m talkin’ about.”

EJ:  Right.  Absolutely.  I logged onto MySpace, saw “Advance Listen,” and within 20 minutes, was blogging about it because it was just great music to me.  And, like I said earlier, I’m seeing people comment, saying “wow… didn’t know it was gonna be this way.”

TON3X™:  I’m so surprised to hear that!  I mean, really, just to hear that… THAT makes me feel good.  I’m not gon’ lie.  Because some people are so clouded by the sensationalism and folklore that surrounds “TON3X™” that it’s really difficult for them to just sit down, listen and be honest.  They’ll be so quick to say they hate it.  But can you really say you don’t like this record?  Some people will just act like they don’t like it.  That means you’re trying to hate it.

EJ:  Right.  Some people want to hate it, though, as it relates to you.  For some, it’s just not their cup of tea, but for some… it’s easier to just say “no, we’ve already decided we don’t approve of what he does.”

TON3X™:  But it’s so funny because the majority of those that do that, and there’s a certain demographic (which I’ll leave nameless) that love to be very spiritual, but very catty… like, high school… chicks.  I see them take different nods to what I’ve tried, fashion-wise, or even musically.  They’ll never admit it, but I see it all the time.

I see where TON3X™ got in there somewhere, whether you want to admit it or not, I know you saw a risk I took and you said “lemme flip this, but I like the risk he took.”  And that, in itself, is enough to say that I’m doing my job.  If you’re not affecting a culture, not just with music, but with your lifestyle– culture, fashion, your walk with God… then, to me, you’re just a little puppet who has a record deal.

EJ:  WOW.  That’s good for the artists to hear.  Step up your game!

TON3X™:  For real.  You know?  Who are the ones we remember– Biggie, Tupac, Hendrix…  These are people who took those risks to advance not just their albums, but to raise the musical consciousness of an entire generation.  This generation, I believe, needs to be uplifted and, right now, education is not the way it’s happening.  Technology is where it’s at.  So, I have to make sure I stay in my lane so I can minister to them.

EJ:  That’s a new look for gospel music, but I hear you.  If I go into a brick and mortar music store, if I can find one these days, your albums are probably stocked in the “Gospel” section.  Is that where your music belongs?

TON3X™:  This album isn’t.  This is the first album where, in all the mainstream stores, I got placed in “R&B/Pop/Rock”… next to Usher, Justin Timberlake… so I’m very excited about the real estate position that the album was given.  That was strategized and calculated and it was one of the reasons that I went with Battery Records.

I was like “do NOT put me in the gospel section.”  And it’s not that I’m ashamed of the Gospel of Christ, but I am ashamed of where our music ends up in mainstream commerce.  You know?  It’s in the back, between “world music” and “comedy.”

EJ:  *laughing*  Right.  It’s all around the corner…

TON3X™:  Yeah, around the corner and you’ve gotta have a GPS Navigation System to find a gospel album.  That’s not where the quality of my music needs to be placed, where the quality of my message needs to be placed.  It deserves a fair shot just like the rest cuz it can hang with the rest.

And that’s not just me– there are several artists in gospel that I just believe are placed in the wrong category.  Not that they don’t sing gospel, but their visibility is limited.

EJ:  Like who?

TON3X™:  KiKi [Sheard], 21:03, Trin-I-Tee 5:7, Canton Jones, Mary Mary.  I just feel that there are certain ones of us that have the style and the flair to appeal, fashion-wise, statement-wise and production-wise… it should be in the regular R&B/Pop sections.  And it’s better than most of the R&B/Pop that’s out.

EJ:  Absolutely.

TON3X™:  Mary Mary’s The Sound, the mix of that alone, surpasses all of the other female R&B records I’ve heard this year.  Period.  And let us not forget… I know everyone is on Bold Right Life, but I think everyone needs to rewind and smell what they slept on with [Kierra Sheard's] This Is Me.

EJ:  I knowwww!

TON3X™:  And I hope she returns back to that.  Because that’s HER.  That’s her lane and it was like, literally, the Full Moon of gospel and nobody really caught that.

EJ:  And by “Full Moon,” you mean Brandy’s Full Moon?

TON3X™:  Yes.

EJ:  *laughs*  You’re my buddy!  That’s awesome.

TON3X™: *laughing*  Yep.  Mmm-hmm… You know I know!

EJ:  Well, you know, some of the saints say we ain’t supposed to be listening to Brandy.

TON3X™:  But that’s where most of our licks, within the past four years, have come from.  *sings a Brandy-styled riff*  Y’know?  Come on.  Learn it, live it, love it.

EJ:  *laughs*  Y’all got that from Brandy and you know it, huh?

TON3X™:  Yeah, and she took her share from us, you know?  We all inspire each other.  You can’t tell me Kim Burrell didn’t influence a little of Full Moon.

EJ:  Absolutely.  Lemme ask you:  I hear you were slated to tape 106 & Gospel soon, but I’ve heard that the show has just been cancelled.

TON3X™:  Yeah, me too.

EJ:  How strong of a blow do you think that is for the gospel industry?  Cuz it seemed like it was a viable outlet.  You mentioned KiKi and 21:03– artists who bridge the gap in that youth/urban gospel scene– do they still have a place?  If they can’t get their product out of the “Gospel” section of the store, where is their outlet gonna be?

TON3X™:  Umm… YouTube.

EJ:  Hmm.

TON3X™:  If people really want their own platform, we don’t have to have those kinds of shows.  I was taping it because I wanted to show that I support the effort.  However, I don’t think that we have to create our own knock-off versions of mainstream shows.  We’re innovative enough to come up with our own format, our own name, our own lane… And I think that’s gonna happen.

And if I can help it, I’m going to be a part of whatever that lane is.  Cuz the way that you cross-over with something like that is to include mainstream artists that have songs that fit in that lane.  Maybe their whole album doesn’t, but perhaps a couple of songs from that album fit the lane.  And that way, you get the notoriety of the mainstream artists and the credibility– that they would even spend time with artists like a KiKi, or a Canton or TON3X™, whatever it may be… it brings validity to the show, versus “this is our knock-off version of 106 & Park.”  You know what I mean?

EJ:  I can hear that.

TON3X™:  I know where they were trying to go, but I think it was important to… Like, gospel music already gets the short end of the stick, so when you have a subgenre (like urban gospel) within a small genre, it’s gonna be difficult– advertisement dollars-wise– to justify the overhead for the spending budget of a show that takes that kind of production quality.  If you’re not getting those mainstream companies to see the viability and why they should put their ads on that show– there’s only a small niche of a niche that’s watching.

So you have to bring folks that may not be gospel artists, but that have songs or testimonies that are inspirational– which they were doing for a minute.

EJ:  Yeah, they did at first.  Like, with Lil’ Mo.

TON3X™:  Exactly.  Bring them in for performances.  AND, don’t just have two gospel hosts.  You need to have someone who’s already recognizable either in the BET sector, or the comedic sector, someone who is recognized on BOTH sides of the spectrum that fits their demographic.  That’s just my humble observation.

If something like that is going to work, I think somebody from the mainstream– unfortunately, until we get our own– has to bring some kind of commercial credibility to what we’re trying to do.

EJ:  Wow.  So, right concept, wrong execution?

TON3X™:  Correct.  And it’s actually TIME for something like that.  That’s what’s so funny about it– the timing was good.  The timing is perfect, cuz now… if you wanna be honest, the urban inspirational scene is at its prime right now.  The quality of music that’s coming out from the people I named before– we’ve never heard records like this.  We’re there.  Whatever kinks need to be worked out, we’re there.

I’m very proud, really.  This is not me alienating my fan base, or me not wanting to be associated with anyone.  I’m really proud to be named among them, because I feel proud that we’re finally making the music that we make without apologizing for it.  We’re saying “this is what God gave us.”

This is what we do.  We’re a part of this Body, too, though we may not do it like you.  Now, if you want us to, we’ll take you to church, too.  Don’t get it twisted– we’re all PK’s.  But don’t knock the ones who need what we do.

EJ:  Do you think of yourself as a pioneer of that movement?

TON3X™:  *pauses* Hmmm… *laughs*

EJ:  *laughs* You can be humble about it, but do you think you have worked and worked to get gospel music this kind of recognition or acceptance?

TON3X™:  I believe that, with this record, now is when I feel like I’m a pioneer.  Pioneers don’t make moves that benefit them– they trailblaze for the betterment of an entire race or people.  Now that my music is in mainstream places, getting mainstream rotation, and people are seeing how I really am– still loving God and representing the Kingdom, now I feel like I’m beginning to be a pioneer.  Because now that’s gonna help the betterment of the whole.

Not that before, it wasn’t… But it was really about me trying to be true to myself.  This is now about me just being obedient to the call for the overall plan and purpose of where the Kingdom is right now.  It’s less self-driven.  It’s more about how this is going to affect, consequently, all of the ones coming up behind me.  And about how much easier it will be for us to be accepted for who we are and not questioned because of what we believe, but are actually respected for the art that we put out, THEN they find out what we represent.

EJ:  That’s a great take on it.  Hey, are you still pastoring?  How’s the church doing?

TON3X™:  YES.  Oh, I never stop that.  Always.  That’s my heart.

EJ:  What does your congregation look like?  Are they old church mothers are some new breed of folks?

TON3X™:  They look like… umm… maybe SoHo?

EJ:  *laughing*  I live in New York, so that’s very relevant for me.

TON3X™:  Yeah, they’re very couture.  Very couture, fashion-driven, culturally relevant church, but not hip-hop in style of worship.  That’s what’s weird– we’re very “us.”  But, the way we worship is very old school.  It’s an interesting contrast.  It’s a very young church in San Diego.

EJ:  Alright, well… if I’m in town… *laughs*

TON3X™:  Yeah, man.  It’s old school, like… you’re gonna have church.  But the church itself looks like an art gallery, like something you’d see in the [Greenwich] Village, or like a loft in Upper East Manhattan somewhere.  It’s just a very artistic church in presentation, with technology.  You know?

We have Wi-Fi and a lot people come in there with their Starbucks, their laptops… we dissect the Word, read from our laptops.  We predominantly teach from The Message Bible Remix, but we always cross-reference with the King James and the NIV.  But the way we worship is very “churchy.”  Every now and then, on some special occasion, we may do something hip-hop.  But honestly, that doesn’t really do it for us.

EJ:  What?!

TON3X™:  I know that sounds crazy coming from TON3X™, but that really does nothing for our congregation.  That’s not the backbone of the worship experience there.

EJ:  That’s awesome, man.  Really great stuff.  Ummm… I think that’s it for me, though I could probably go on talking to you for a few more hours cuz it’s just a cool conversation.

TON3X™: *laughing* Yeah, exactly.  Cuz I mean… you “get” it.

EJ:  I’ve really enjoyed chattin’ with you.

TON3X™:  I appreciate you taking the time to highlight what I’m doing, and even taking the time to share how you felt about it personally– your observations are very objective.  I wish you much success with what you’re doing… and keep going.

EJ:  I appreciate that, man.  For real.

TON3X™:  And if I have any exclusives, I know who to call!

EJ:  And please DO.  I’m glad you’re back and I think a lot of people are as well.

TON3X™:  Awww.  I feel that, too.  Just for the record, and you can put this in there, I haven’t had any funny experiences.  Like, everyone’s been very receptive.  So, either they’re acting very well or they’re really happy to have me back, and I believe the second.

EJ:  Yeah, I don’t think the saints can act that well. *laughs*

TON3X™:  Yeah.  But the love that I’ve been gettin’, it’s been incredible.

EJ:  Well, keep in touch and I’ll be talking to you.

TON3X™:  Thank you, sir.  Be well.

*     *     *

So, that was my chat with my new buddy.  LOL

Seriously, what did y’all think?  I think he said a lot of GREAT stuff and, even if you wanna feel a certain way about him or his music, I love that he challenges the status quo and makes us really assess WHY we believe WHAT we believe… regardless of where you land, the exploration is well worth it.

Great dude.  Thoughts???

I got to chat with TON3X™ last week about a BUNCH of topics.  I’ve separated the interview into 2 sections, partly cuz I wanna keep you in suspense, but also cuz it was longer than he and I planned, and I have more content than I expected.

Regardless of what you’ve heard about him, I found him to be a refreshingly candid and incredibly kind person.  Chatting with him was simple and honest– a GREAT discussion.

Here, in Part 1, we’re talking about his new album, Unspoken, his place in the music industry, some of the controversy that has surrounded him, and how he’s responded.  YOU DO NOT WANT TO MISS THIS INTERVIEW!

Without any delay… I give you TON3X™.

*     *     *

EJ:  Hey man, how are you?

TON3X™:  I’m good!

EJ:  Good.  I appreciate your taking a minute to chat with me.  I know you’re busy doing promo stuff for the album.

TON3X™:  Yeah, it’s crazy.

EJ:  I can imagine.  What happened last week with your transportation and you being under the weather?

TON3X™:  It was just, y’know… the pollen on the East Coast is bananas and just getting the vehicle in order, and having to change drivers and everything… it was just bananas, unexpectedly.

EJ:  Well, I’m glad it’s all good now.

TON3X™:  Oh yeah.  You know, when you’re doing this extensive of a tour, you’re gonna have those minor setbacks, but thanks be unto God, who causes us to triumph.  We just rescheduled everything and, as a result, even more dates came in.  We were able to hit a few places that weren’t even originally included.  So, not only will we be able to do what we were gonna do, we’re doing what we didn’t know we were gonna do.

EJ:  Praise God.  Well, I wanna jump right in and talk about your new release, Unspoken.  First of all, I think it’s phenomenal.  I’m a fan and I don’t care what’s said– I think you’re teetering dangerously close to “musical genius.”  I’ve also noticed a lot of people who were probably naysayers saying stuff on their Facebook status updates like “I’m a little surprised, but i’m kinda loving this.”

TON3X™:  Wow!  I didn’t even know that.  That’s good to hear.

EJ:  Yeah, man.  But, what would you say is the basic message or direction of this album?

TON3X™:  You know… I’ma be real– I don’t even know, myself.

EJ:  *laughs*

TON3X™: *laughing*  You know?  Because it really wasn’t a conceptual album, except from the standpoint of the cover– that’s the most conceptual piece about it.  But the selection of songs don’t necessarily reflect the concept of the cover, which is basically… you know, spiritual abuse, emotional abuse, corporate abuse… all of those woes and things that I was victimized with before.

Unspoken is like… “here’s some music… this is my best work, my best collection.”  When I say “collection,” I mean that I recorded three albums that were rejected by my former label and I took the best songs from those three records and put them on one piece.  So, it’s like the “Greatest Hits Record of Tonex” of music that never made it to the commercial marketplace.

EJ:  Wow.

TON3X™:  That’s why I think it worked better for consumers and, like you said, the naysayers because it isn’t really a long piece.  It’s all about the MUSIC.  It’s not alluding to what happened, there’s nothing talking about what “was”…

I just think people are a little exhausted and I’m exhausted from everything that’s happened between Out The Box and Unspoken.  Some things are better left unsaid, so it’s like… let’s get back to the music, let’s get back to the art.

So, if anything, that’s the concept, but there really was no link between each one of these songs.  They were just chosen because I felt they best voiced the sentiment of who I am right now and how I feel.

EJ:  That’s great to hear, man.

TON3X™:  Yeah.  I’m happy to be performing again, I’m happy to be doing what I was known for, you know?  Not just the things that happened to me, or around me, or about me.  It’s just good to get away from the sensationalism of it all and just get back to what I love.  And I think that’s what people are connected to.  There’s just nothing alluding to anything that people thought a TON3X™ record would probably be about.  Because I’m not about that anymore.  It’s done with.  The music speaks louder than anything else right now.

And I’m just glad that it worked.  I just got an email from Donald Lawrence and he basically broke down each song to me.  And just for him to take the time to break down my songs… y’know, he’s a genius himself.  And for him to take the time to write and really have dissected that album says a lot about it.  Richard Smallwood as well, he hit me up the same way.  And just to have my peers and mentors and teachers acknowledge that– it just says a lot about my artistic growth and the choices that I’ve matured into making.

EJ:  That’s great that they reached out like that.

TON3X™:  Yeah.  Like, one of the good choices, [Donald] said, was that it’s only 13 songs.  You know?  People are making albums that are just entirely too long right now.

EJ:  For real!  And unnecessarily so.

TON3X™:  And I think we’re getting back to where the whole ALBUM is what we’re thinking of, not just certain songs out of a double CD.

EJ:  That’s awesome.  You know, I think about this album, with songs like “Sneeze,” where you’re literally just singing “achoo” in the chorus…

TON3X™: *laughs*  That’s the one that Donald spent the most time on.

EJ:  I love that song!   I was telling my wife “listen!  he’s sneezing, but he’s also got scripture and he’s saying ‘the prophet laid upon me’…” I think it’s amazing.  And even songs like “Games” from the Out The Box album, making a gospel track from the theme song of Family Feud… where do you get these ideas?!

TON3X™: *laughing*

EJ:  *laughing* For real, man!  It’s almost like you have no inhibitions, nothing is far-fetched, everything is “fair game.”  Is that accurate?

TON3X™:  That’s accurate.  That’s very accurate.  I don’t know WHAT to be afraid of– I just go with my gut.  I learned that from Donald Trump.  No big investment he’s ever had was built off of over-analyzing or over-strategizing his next move.  He just went with his gut.

And that’s what a lot of artists are lacking to me.  They wanna be safe and pay those bills.  But sometimes, you may get a steady paycheck, but I want that one that no one else was willing to roll the dice on and I did, and it paid off real big.

And I think that, with this record… even with the cover, I went into it knowing “I’m just gonna put it out there and I’m gonna go with my gut.”  My gut said nothing looks like this or sounds like this and, I think I might get a Hood Grammy if I do it the way I was feeling it in my heart, the way God gave it to me.

EJ:  Wow.

TON3X™:  Cuz this wasn’t even the original title, or direction.  I wasn’t supposed to be on Battery Records… just the way it all happened.  There was not supposed to be another commercial TON3X™ album in the marketplace.  EVER.  I only did this because I had the freedom to do the record the way I wanted to do it.

Because no longer would I be represented in the commercial marketplace, being a dumbed-down version of who God really made me to be.

EJ:  Mmm.  I hear that.  You mention having freedom in your music…  On “Wired,” one of the tracks on Unspoken, you mention something about how many STDs should be in your body.  And, I remember that back on your Oak Park album, you talk about struggling with masturbation in your song, “Feelings.”

TON3X™:  Yes.

EJ:  You never seem afraid to jump head-first into some very taboo topics in the church and in the Body of Christ.  How do you respond, though, to people who say you give too much, or that you don’t finesse it enough… like you’re almost TOO blatant?  Is that possible in gospel?

TON3X™:  Ummm… I think the only thing, for me, is just making sure that I know the crowd.  Like, when I’m in the college crowd, I can do a lot of songs that I can’t just do when I know I have kids in the audience, like KID kids… like babies.

And that’s why, on the Oak Park record, there was a “Parental Advisory” sticker on that album.  I think I gave plenty of precursor to what could be on that record, not necessarily anything “explicit” in the conventional context, where they think that means cussing… but I was saying “the subject matter, and what was being addressed in a very blatant way, might be too much for younger listeners.”  It might be too early to introduce them to some things, but for some kids it may not be too early.

I think that ages 12 and 13– they know a lot more than what we think they know.  And they need somebody who IS saved to give them the Biblical prospect and perspective of what this thing is really all about, that this is real life, that these are the challenges that we’ll have to face.  And I don’t think I’d have to address it had it been addressed already…

EJ:  Uh oh. *laughs*

TON3X™: *laughs*  But no one else seems to be talking about it, so that’s my lane.

EJ:  Now, you mentioned not cussing on the Oak Park album, but you DID do some cussing later, right?

TON3X™:  Yes, I did.  I certainly did.  I cussed A LOT of people out.  But that was not, in any way, shape or form, about me wanting to have a liquor license to say and do what I wanted to do.  That came from a real place.

EJ:  I believe that.

TON3X™:  That came from a place of truth.  That song was co-written by people who brought that and provoked that out of me.  Does it justify it and make it right?  No, of course it wasn’t as expedient as it should be.  But, it was real.

And I’m one of those artists that’s not gonna fake, no matter if I’m in the valley or on the mountaintop– it just is what it is.  And you can’t keep messing with people and their families, saying things and blogging anonymously… saying all kinds of stuff while people are STILL grieving and recovering from some of the most traumatic times in their lives… and not think that, one of those days, I’m just gonna lose it.  And I lost it.  For a day.

But the next day, I was fine.  I was at Baskin-Robbins having ice cream while everyone else was still stuck on it.

EJ:  *laughing*  Not Baskin-Robbins.

TON3X™:  And everyone’s thing was “how do you just do that and not have any conviction?”  I’m like… it’s not about conviction, it’s about relative truth.  It’s like saying “let’s only put the GOOD moments in the Bible and extract all of the other failures that David had, or all of the other issues that took place.”  They were left in there, for contextual purposes, to show the contrast between what GOD does and the human struggle of fear and abasement.

EJ:  That’s true.

TON3X™:  If you look at Peter, this guy cussed too, but the church was built upon him.  The church was founded upon the same guy who denied Jesus three times and cussed.  Now, that doesn’t make it okay for people to cuss, but it’s saying that God UNDERSTANDS the nature of the human condition, which is WHY we need a Savior, WHY we need the cross, and WHY we need restoration and redemption with meekness.

And I think it just basically opened up a door for people to say “oh my God… this person, as much as we want to make him a hero and put him on a platform, I’m now aware that everything I say and write and do, I need to be more conscious of how I write it, and what I say and do.”  Because we don’t think these people are reading this.  We don’t think Chris Brown and Rihanna read this stuff.  We don’t think Beyonce and Michael Jackson and Britney Spears read this stuff.  But our families are affected by this and people don’t think of that way.  They just think “well, they’re public, so we get to attack.”  No, you don’t.  I’m a human, too.  I’m a human, too.

Once I got that venom outta my system, I sent out an apology letter.  And the apology letter was specifically for the way it came out.  I wasn’t apologizing for my truth.

EJ:  It was the expression of it?

TON3X™:  Yeah, apologizing for the way it was conveyed.

EJ:  Wow.  That’s real talk.  You know, you’ve been an incredibly controversial artist in the gospel community for several reasons—your style, your lyrics, your approach.  How do you respond, or do you even feel the need to respond to critics who chalk up your image to someone who just wants attention and does things for shock value?

*     *     *

Yeah, so y’all are gonna have to wait to hear his response to THAT question.

Make sure y’all check out Part 2 of this deal TOMORROW!  He’ll talk about media sensationalism in his career, how his music should really be categorized, and MUCH more.

In the meantime, THOUGHTS anyone???  I KNOWWWW y’all got something to say.  Lemme hear it!